LinkedIn Video Strategy for Marketers with Goldie Chan

GOLDIE CHAN
0:00

I got this so much. People were just telling me constantly, like, I can’t believe you’re doing this on LinkedIn. It’s so stupid. Like, you should be doing this on YouTube. Nobody wants to see you talking directly into camera, which ironically now is the format of choice. And people teach entire courses on how to talk in camera for LinkedIn videos. So I think it’s really fascinating that that now that’s the established format. So now people are like, oh, I want to try a different format.

GOLDIE CHAN
0:26

And ironically, some of those different formats that you’re seeing now are some of the things that were sandboxing within the very, very early days of LinkedIn videos. And I always think that as an introvert with social anxiety, one of the things that makes me feel really confident making videos on LinkedIn, first of all, was just doing it. Which is why if you look at the first few videos I did the first, like, 30 to 50 videos, was I super confident in those videos? Not necessarily, but I did them.

ROCIO OSUNA
0:58

Welcome again to the Business and Marketing Podcast. I’m Rocio Sweena.

A. LEE JUDGE
1:01

And I’m Ailee Judge. You know, there’s a difference between being a creator and turning it into a business. You can build a personal brand, but what do you do with it? Do you leverage the brand to build a business, or do you make a business out of teaching the value of building a personal brand? Well, today we’re talking about having a lasting career as an influencer, building a personal brand and building a business out of your influence. Influence. But before we get to that interview, Rocio, what’s going on in your world?

ROCIO OSUNA
1:31

So recently I was reading an Airmail article that had to do with how Hollywood is embracing content creators to win back Gen C viewership. So we’re looking at things like SNL and Euphoria. They’re bringing in Tiktokers, they’re bringing in Instagram influencers. The creator economy is worth over $250 billion. We’re seeing a total shift from influencers leveraging actual media power. It proves that being intentional about who you are is what’s opening doors. So if you have expertise and visibility, the opportunity will find you.

A. LEE JUDGE
2:06

So it is almost like you are your own casting call. Instead of having to go out and find opportunities, you build your own brand, and opportunities find you. Exactly what’s happening.

ROCIO OSUNA
2:19

Exactly.

A. LEE JUDGE
2:20

Well, you know, that makes me think about, there’s a guy you may have seen the videos from, School of Hard Knocks, the guy James demulin, who goes out and interviews these billionaires and asks them you know, how much money did you make in a, in a year? Or how did you get so rich? Well, so he’s known for these interviews and I predict that he’s the next Mr. Beast because he’s done like what you said. He’s an influencer, but he went out and made his own name for himself and built a business from it. And a friend asked me about that type of influencer and I think there’s a model to it and I don’t. And I think today it’s hard to replicate because you have to be at that certain time. But the model I’ve seen for him and the reason why I say he’s the next Mr. Beast is because he worked relentlessly in his early 20s. He built, built an audience, monetized it, and then he sold how he did it.

A. LEE JUDGE
3:14

And he’s building a whole business. And a lot of the reason why people are paying him, because if you did it, then obviously you can teach somebody how you did it and there’s value there.

GOLDIE CHAN
3:24

Exactly.

ROCIO OSUNA
3:25

Yep. I’m seeing it too. That specific set of, you know, making videos and interviewing people. The real, the one I really enjoy right now is on Instagram and it’s someone going into colleges. Going into colleges. I don’t know if you’ve seen this one. He goes into colleges and asks people five questions about their expertise. So there might be, you know, a neuroscience, and they’re doing a PhD at Harvard.

ROCIO OSUNA
3:45

And he asked them like, hey, you know, would you be able to answer five questions about neuroscience? And so in the comments, I’m seeing that people are like, we love this kind of pivot. You know, we get that specific, like, what do you do for a living? How much do you earn? Now it’s, you know, not smart, but it’s giving us more pieces of people’s expertise. And it’s not just, you know, well known, famous rich people. It’s people are actually going in the education system and becoming, you know, students and becoming experts in their field. So I think that pivot itself, I love that kind of format and videos is the learning bit is what’s popular now.

A. LEE JUDGE
4:19

So I think if anybody’s watching, listening and thinking about becoming an influencer, what you’re going to get from today’s episode especially is it isn’t just about being famous, but what can you do with that influence? Like, once people know you, how do you parlay that into business and make it make sense and open doors for yourself? The person we’re talking to today is a perfect model of how to do that. You’re going to really enjoy this conversation. So that’s a perfect segue into our conversation. She hasn’t just watched this shift happen, she’s mastered it. She’s leveraged her brand as a creator and an entrepreneur to become a literal author on the subject. So here’s a conversation coming up. Welcome to our show, the bestselling author of personal branding for introverts, the Oprah Winfrey of LinkedIn. Check out this interview with our guest, Goldie Chan.

ROCIO OSUNA
5:14

All right, Goldie, I’ve been following you since 2018. I’ve been following you since you started that 800 consecutive contests you had going on. It was exhausting, but very inspiring to see all of that content being pumped out when, you know, LinkedIn decided to throw out native video. Very inspiring. So with that going on, looking back at the 2018 era versus today, how has the landscape for LinkedIn video actually changed? What’s the biggest difference, do you notice in what works now? And how do you stay successful in such a crowded space?

GOLDIE CHAN
5:48

So I want to say that the biggest difference now is that LinkedIn has dedicated teams and also a dedicated, even I would say spot on their platform for, for video itself. So on mobile it’s its own tab. I also know that internally that they’ve dedicated specific folks to that which they were doing in 2018. But it was a very experimental team, I wanna say, back then and now it’s a little bit more seasoned because, and I hesitate to say this, it’s almost a decade later, which is wild to think about things. Things move so quickly. I think one of the things that, that worked really well back then, at least for me, and I’m sure you saw this if you’re watching my videos, is I was sandboxing a lot. I was doing a lot of front facing camera work which people were just like, nobody wants to see that, Goldie. Nobody wants to see you talking directly into camera.

GOLDIE CHAN
6:41

Which ironically now is the format of choice. And people teach entire courses on how to talk in camera for LinkedIn videos. So I think it’s really fascinating that that narrative now, that’s the established format. So now people are like, oh, I want to try a different format. And ironically, some of those different formats that you’re seeing now are some of the things that, that people were sandboxing within the very, very early days of LinkedIn videos. So everything to me, everything is cyclical. Everything kind of goes back around again. I think what makes people really successful now and one thing that I’m just Looking at myself and trying to figure out myself is what is your lane that you’re in? Right.

GOLDIE CHAN
7:26

And I think that that is true of all LinkedIn content, not just video. But if your video is reflecting that specific lane that you want to be known for, that only helps you, as opposed to videos that were all over the place. So when I was doing my 800 daily consecutive videos years ago, I was really doing like, whatever video I could for that day. A lot of it on branding and marketing, but some of it on travel, some of it on just like thoughts of the day, questions I had for my audience. And I don’t know that I would do that format again now. And I don’t know that even necessarily having so many daily consecutive videos would be as successful now that LinkedIn video is out of its beta very officially.

A. LEE JUDGE
8:14

Well, let me ask you that about the beta, because I was an early adopter too. I think I got it in 2017 before the full rollout.

ROCIO OSUNA
8:21

Yes.

A. LEE JUDGE
8:22

And at that time, there were so few of us. That’s why I found you, because there were so few of us making videos.

GOLDIE CHAN
8:27

Yeah.

A. LEE JUDGE
8:27

So few. And so here’s the question, though, it’s been almost a decade now.

GOLDIE CHAN
8:32

Yes.

A. LEE JUDGE
8:33

How is it that we’re still in the minority of people creating content on LinkedIn?

GOLDIE CHAN
8:39

What I think is really fascinating is that most people, and I’m sure you got this too. I don’t know, maybe because I was a little bit more in the spotlight, I got this so much. People were just telling me constantly, like, I can’t believe you’re doing this on LinkedIn. It’s so stupid. Like, you should be doing this on YouTube. You should be doing this on, ironically at the time, Facebook video, which we know that didn’t really pan out. So. So I was getting a lot of feedback, like, this is not the platform for video.

GOLDIE CHAN
9:09

And I think still today I surprise people all the time. Like, I was just at this dinner and it was for a wedding and it was all working comedians there. So it was somebody who wrote on a very famous late night show, somebody at a very famous animation studio. I’m not gonna name names. And they’re like, well, what do you do, Goldie? And I was like, well, you know, I used to write for Fun Forbes, and I just came out with my first book, blah, blah. But also I’m a LinkedIn creator. And they’re like, what does that mean? And I think it’s fascinating. Almost a decade later, they have no idea people are creating content on LinkedIn.

GOLDIE CHAN
9:45

They’re like, you make videos on LinkedIn. I was like, yeah, I’ve done it for almost a decade now, and at one point I was basically number one on the platform. So I was explaining to this person, they’re like, oh, we should connect on LinkedIn. I think it’s, I think it’s really funny. But, yeah, I think over the course of a decade, I think so many more people have joined you and me with content creation. But I think the bar still feels, I don’t know, inexplicably very high to so many people, even though, as you know, it’s not especially for text. And I, I would love to get into the sloppification of LinkedIn, because I think we’re experiencing that as well right now.

A. LEE JUDGE
10:31

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A. LEE JUDGE
11:18

Want to see how it works? Visit content monster.com today to learn more. Yeah, well, video makes it a bit harder to slopify it. And to me, that’s, that’s a quick answer to when someone says, how do I stand up? Stand? Apart from all the AI slop on LinkedIn, I’m like, show up, show yourself, be yourself, do video. Because it’s a lot harder to, to fake it. And even today, you know, the quality is getting amazing. But still, somehow as humans, we can sense there’s a soul missing.

GOLDIE CHAN
11:53

Sense it? Yeah, when there’s a soul. Somebody was showing me their workflow and this was two, three years ago. So this is very early in the AI and they’re a very early AI adopter, and their entire workflow is AI down to their customer service, which I disagree with. But they translate their podcast into many different languages and it’s fully AI clones of themselves saying their podcasts out loud in different languages. And you just sense it at least a couple of years ago. And I think still even now, there is a element of uncanny valley with that, with them speaking directly to camera in a different language. And it Just looked fake. Like the background behind them looked fake.

GOLDIE CHAN
12:36

Like, they looked fake. So I’m like, who is consuming this video podcast that you’re making in a different language? And I don’t know, maybe they do have, like, a very fervent audience that is excited, even if it is AI content from that person.

A. LEE JUDGE
12:52

I think if they found them as AI and didn’t know them as a real person first, it’s easier to accept. But after watching Goldie Chan for years and then all of a sudden there’s a fake one, it’s just not gonna work.

GOLDIE CHAN
13:05

Yeah. And I think, yeah, it’s. I think we’re getting into this space too. I remember even last year, year before I get so many, I got so many people who are like, I will scan your likeness into our site for free. Like. Like, for you, it normally is like $400 thousand dollars, but for you, I’ll do it for free. And I’m like, you want me to give away my likeness for your site? You’ve guaranteed me no safety for my likeness. And they’re like, it’s free.

GOLDIE CHAN
13:34

Don’t worry. Wink, wink. And I get this. I get this offer honestly, all the time, and I think now I’m getting it a little bit less. Just because people are wising up to the fact that they should not be giving away their likeness, at very minimum, you should be compensated for your likeness, especially if it’s being used to train an ll.

ROCIO OSUNA
13:55

I think one of the reasons that I’ve heard, at least with people that I’ve talked to about the hesitation of doing videos is, you know, not being secure in themselves. I talked to a friend recently, and she’s like, who wants to see, you know, a mother of two who’s much older, you know, talk about my expertise, Expertise. And I’m like, I do. Like, I had the same exact hesitation when I was at a workshop with Heike Young at Content Marketing World. You know, she was heading a workshop and she was talking about, you know, LinkedIn video. And one of the questions she asked the audience when I was in there was, you know, what’s stopping you? And I said, you know, I started creating content video for LinkedIn in 2018, and I stopped for, like, five or six years. And I was hesitant to come back because I said the same thing. You, you know, who wants to see video of a much older, you know, woman, you know, with two kids? Like, no one wants to see that.

ROCIO OSUNA
14:46

And everyone interjected and said, yes, we do. You know, all those different aspects and all those qualities that make you human is why I think LinkedIn video is a powerhouse. You know, it tells you those soft skills. It gives you those little, you know, rough edges of that expert.

GOLDIE CHAN
15:01

Yeah, absolutely. First of all, shout out to Heike. She’s really sweet. We actually recently got lunch together. I love what she’s doing, and I feel like she’s so interesting because she’s for sure. I would say we’re almost gone through three waves of LinkedIn creators in the video landscape, video universe. One was, of course, like us in early, early days, 2017, 2018, starting from literally the start of the beta till now. And then I feel like there was really a second wave that happened, kind of pandemic time when people were just stuck at home and they were like, I should just create video.

GOLDIE CHAN
15:39

I should do any. And then I think the third wave was really recent, you know, really in the 2021-2022 till now era. And that, to me, is like the third wave of creators that you’re really seeing. And Heike is one of those third wave creators I think is really fascinating. I’m really excited to see what she’s going to create next. And I think they are making the platform their own. So you’re seeing a lot more of folks like that. But I want to go back to that confidence question, which is how can you be more confident just creating videos in general? And I always think that as an introvert with social anxiety, one of the things that makes me feel really confident making videos on LinkedIn, first of all, was just doing it.

GOLDIE CHAN
16:25

Which is why, if you look at the first few videos I did, the first, like 30 to 50 videos, was I super confident in those videos? Not necessarily, but I did them. And you have to just keep doing it and doing and doing it. Just like video podcasts, right? You have to keep doing it until you feel more confident. And it is that practice that helps. But also, I think one thing that I like to do, it’s a visual exercise that I personally do, is I pretend that the camera is a good friend and I’m talking to that good friend. I imagine that good friend, I’m sorry, speaking to that good friend. And that is a person that I am educating, that I am entertaining, that I am helping, and that, at least for me, is very helpful for when I get what I perceive as kind of like virtual stage fright. Yeah.

A. LEE JUDGE
17:18

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A. LEE JUDGE
18:03

And the key is that they’re not in their head recording video for LinkedIn or recording video for YouTube. We have a conversation with them. And so once they forget the end result and they’re just having a conversation, then they can relax and be themselves and be the experts that they are.

GOLDIE CHAN
18:21

And.

A. LEE JUDGE
18:21

And they’re having a conversation as if it were a podcast, and some of them are podcasts. But it’s like once we get them out of that mindset of I’m creating content for social media, that part scares people to death. They think they’re doing it for that, but just having the conversation and capturing it, then it ends up on social media and it looks natural.

GOLDIE CHAN
18:41

Yeah, I think it’s exactly what you’re saying is you are imagining this vast virtual audience, this scary, invisible audience of millions and millions of people watching you. And I think the best way to do the best content is to not think about that. Unless you are, of course, an extrovert and you’re really motivated by that, thinking about millions and millions of people watching you. I think that’s not most of us, though. Most of us find it quite scary. And for executives who maybe have literally millions, I mean, like, not millions, but thousands of people who work under them, you’d think that they’d feel more comfortable speaking to thousands of people at once. And some of them, they see that little blinking red light and they’re like, I don’t want to do this. I don’t feel comfortable doing this because it’s not what they’re used to.

GOLDIE CHAN
19:33

And I think that’s a lot of content creation, too. And if we want to get into public speaking in general, I think a lot of it is I’m not used to it. So if you’re not used to it, then it becomes something that, of course, is scary. Of course it becomes something that you maybe are not as accustomed to or you don’t want to do, because you don’t. You feel uncomfortable doing it. But I think it’s just like saying hi to your neighbor every single Day. If you start saying hi to your neighbor every single day, that hello to your neighbor becomes really natural.

ROCIO OSUNA
20:06

So flipping on that, that same topic of social anxiety and being an introvert obviously wrote a book. So me and Lee had a conversation recently about networking at conferences. There we go. And one of the topics we brought up was networking. So networking at conferences. I was telling Lee, you know, I’m an extrovert. So the social anxiety of conferences doesn’t really intimidate me because talk to anyone, you know, the support staff, the speakers, vendors, anyone and everyone. Right.

ROCIO OSUNA
20:33

So with Lee, we were having this conversation because he was going to go into a conference and he’s an introvert and he’s like, you know, what do you do? And I was giving him this plethora of things that I do. But what are really tips that you give to people that are introverted to go into conferences and feel more, you know, not anxious about it.

GOLDIE CHAN
20:50

Yeah. So I start with this. The goal is to meet two new people at the conference. Which sounds wild because you’re like, wait, it’s conference. There’s like hundreds of people there, maybe thousands of people there. But my goal every conference is to come away with just two people. Two people. I had a really in depth, right? Very introvert, forward in depth conversations with.

GOLDIE CHAN
21:12

We made a connection. We talked about a lot of things. We talked for more than five minutes and we had a really memorable connection. And I try to do that for all the conferences that I attend, is that I meet two new people. I just keep it at two. And that doesn’t mean that I don’t have conversations with everyone, with the support staff, with folks. But it just means that I am really intentional about people I deep dive with. Because as an introvert, I have very limited energy.

GOLDIE CHAN
21:45

And I think it’s really tempting to. I’m just flashing these. It’s tempting to just go grab a bunch of business cards, right? It’s tempting to say, like, I’m going to get a fat steel stack of business cards. I’m gonna meet so many people. But what I’ve noticed with that fast stack of business cards or contact information is so rarely do I follow up with like 20 plus people. But I will follow up really in depth and jump on a call with one or two people. So I front, invest in the two people that I find really interesting based on what either just like personally interests me or I just have a good connection with, or maybe they match a goal or they offer something that I need and I make sure to follow up with them. And I always also on the follow up side of things, then I always immediately follow up in the next 48 hours and say, let’s schedule a call because I want to make sure that we don’t lose that momentum, that energy that we had in with those in person conversations.

GOLDIE CHAN
22:48

So I, when I go to conferences, I really don’t try to just collect information. And I’ll say this too. Conferences to me are time when I see good friends or people that I really like, I will invest time to speak to them even if I already know them. So I’m not also always looking for connecting with like 20 million new people. Sometimes to me, that’s the time to invest in friends, friends or colleagues that I haven’t seen in a long time to do that in person, one to one connection again. Because then people remember you, people remember you, they remember you took that time. I’m not going to name names that I was at a conference and I was sitting next to one of my friends and if they ever hear this podcast, they’ll know it was them. They know exactly what I’m talking about.

GOLDIE CHAN
23:36

And this other person sat on the other side of me and, and they were just like, goldie, do you know who I am? And I was like, what a way to start a conversation. And I just looked at them and I said yes. And then I turned over to my friend who I was in the middle of a conversation with and we just kept talking because I thought that was like a rude way to interrupt me and also a rude way to start a conversation. And then I just kept talking and then they like tapped me again and they’re like, no, I’m blah blah, blah, like I’m big on blah blah, blah platform. And I looked at them in the eye and I was like, well, that’s really nice for you. Like, that’s really nice. Like I’m Goldie. And they’re like, no, I know who you are.

GOLDIE CHAN
24:19

And I was like, well, that’s great too. I’m in the middle of like, I’m so sorry, I’m in the middle of conversation with my friends. So like, if I could get back to that. And I personally focus on people and I think as an introvert, it’s better to focus on the people who are in front of you and have that really good conversation. I’ll say that friend and I, we’re still friends this day. We still laugh about that moment, quite frankly, because they think it’s so funny because I literally was just trying to eat tacos and this person with my friend and this person kept trying to interject themselves in my conversation and be like, I’m number one on blah, blah platform. Which they aren’t. But I’m like the top dog, like, you should pay attention to me.

GOLDIE CHAN
25:05

And I’m like, I. I don’t know why, wherever this is coming from, but I don’t need to pay attention to you.

A. LEE JUDGE
25:11

So let me ask you this about your book, because I want to get into the book, because being an introvert, I think is different for those of us who are versus the people who perceive us. Because something that we have in common is that more people know us than we know.

GOLDIE CHAN
25:29

Yeah.

A. LEE JUDGE
25:30

Right. And they think that we can’t be introverts if that’s the case.

GOLDIE CHAN
25:33

Yes.

A. LEE JUDGE
25:34

So last week, Rosio was coaching me before I went to this event. And the beautiful thing is, after she hyped me up, I did go and I met two people. So you’ve got me, I’ve got a number now.

GOLDIE CHAN
25:45

You have a number now?

A. LEE JUDGE
25:47

Yep, I met two people. But the thing is, I go to conferences typically because I’m speaking. And when I’m speaking, that also means that I already have my tribe of people who are there, other speakers that I know, other friends, and people walk up to me to speak to me because I’ve already been speaking, which means that I can be an introvert, but yet I still meet people and I don’t look like one because I’m like, how can you be on stage if you’re an introvert? I mean, I used to be a radio dj. I would talk to millions at a time. But like you said earlier, I’m talking to this one person in my head, not millions.

GOLDIE CHAN
26:22

Yeah.

A. LEE JUDGE
26:22

And so people think, well, how can you be an introvert if you can get on stage, if you get on the radio, you must not be introvert. And I guess that’s why they also can interrupt you, but they think they can just get in your space because you’re. Maybe you’re an extrovert. So how does. What is. What’s in your book that I could find to. To help walk through that process of being an introvert, but perhaps being perceived as an extrovert.

GOLDIE CHAN
26:45

Yeah. So one of them is really having boundaries. So what I just, that whole long winded story that I was speaking about was all about how you can have boundaries as an introvert, which I think is incredibly important. So if you, for example, as a speaker. Right. I think speaker is a great example. First of all. Yes, the introvert Trick of the year is to be a speaker, because then people will come to you.

GOLDIE CHAN
27:11

So I know that at Social Media Marketing World, which I will be speaking, speaking at very soon, I will have so many an overwhelming amount of people who will come and speak to me afterwards who have been following me for years. But one thing that I do have is I have boundaries. So I have time caps on my time. So I will say, great, I will stay after my session for exactly 30 or 35 minutes or whatever that time is. And then I will set a timer on my phone or I’ll have my assistant or whoever is handling me do that. And then I will leave after that time is done and I will go back to my hotel room and I will just have quiet, absolute nonverbal quiet. So one of the things I go through in the book is like, how you can better have boundaries, how you can replenish that introvert battery, how you can get back on track after a very exhausting event. And for everyone that is different.

GOLDIE CHAN
28:08

For me, it is sitting. I will sit in my hotel room and watch whatever Food Network channel exists. And in different countries, they all have their own version of Food Network. I want to throw that out there, which is different than the US Version of Food Network. I will sit and I will just quietly watch some tv. I will kind of go over my notes for the rest of the day. I just need to be in a space where people are not constantly, physically in my space as an introvert with social anxiety. So I make that very clear for myself.

GOLDIE CHAN
28:44

So I don’t go from immediately speaking usually unless I’m contractually obligated to go to a party, to go to like a dinner, to go to, blah, blah. I always take time to myself where I decompress, I debrief, and then I’m able to do the next social thing. And I talk about that a little bit in the book. And once again, different people are different. Some people, some introverts are fine, honestly, going for a full day, and then it’s at the end of the day where they crash right? Where they then are like, for the next day, the next four days, I need to not talk to anyone.

A. LEE JUDGE
29:21

I’m the opposite. I shut down before I speak. I don’t want to see anybody that morning before I speak. But after I speak, where’s the bar? Yeah, ready to go party.

GOLDIE CHAN
29:30

I’m glad. Like, I. Once again, I think it’s good to know where you need that quiet time, where you need that space, because I think all introverts need space and quiet at some point in their day. Right. Especially as speakers or someone who is going to be very present at a conference. And it’s good to know when you need that quiet time and when you need that separation. So you can ask for that and you can vocalize that. You need that.

GOLDIE CHAN
29:56

And you create clear boundaries, like, especially for you. You’re like, up until I’m speaking, I’m not going to talk to anyone. And then after I’m done speaking, then it’s fine. I’m already on that high. I’m ready to go. I’m excited. I’m, you know, we’re going to do this. So it’s good to know personally where you are on that spectrum.

ROCIO OSUNA
30:13

And I think with, you know, introverts and extroverts, even extroverts with me when I’m at a long conference that’s three days, I am completely exhausted mentally because I’ve been on for hours. Sometimes I’m there 12 hours and my head is just like so convoluted with, like, you know, I gotta, you know, follow up with this person. I gotta do something else. So it’s like, now I gotta do it again the next day and the next day. And so for me, as an extrovert, my kind of way to settle down is really the car ride. Because I got two small kids, so

GOLDIE CHAN
30:42

I gotta be quiet for that car ride. Then I gotta go home and like,

ROCIO OSUNA
30:46

decompress with my kids, you know, not try to look at the phone. Yeah, extroverts. We also go through the whole. Our brain is just so full of things and we just want quiet and space. But when you got kids, the kids don’t care.

GOLDIE CHAN
30:59

Processing. Yeah, you’re trying to have time to process. So one thing that I tell everyone to do at a conference is everyone has time to do this at a conference. At every single conference, you go to take 10 minutes and walk outside. You’re going to walk outside and for two minutes, two whole minutes, you’re not going to be on your phone, you’re not going to be on your smartwatch, you’re not going to be on an iPad. I don’t know why you carry your iPad out with you. You’re not going to be on any digital device whatsoever for a full two minutes. And this just gives you time for your brain to reset and for you to get some more oxygen.

GOLDIE CHAN
31:35

That’s like fresh oxygen into your body. And it just kind of, kind of resets your body in a very specific way to do that also just like, walk once again. Walking outside, walking by yourself outside, taking that break, coming back in. And everyone has 10 minutes in their schedule to take a break like that.

ROCIO OSUNA
31:54

Yeah, totally agree. It’s a great method. I tried it.

GOLDIE CHAN
31:57

Yeah, True. It’s very true.

ROCIO OSUNA
31:59

Yep.

A. LEE JUDGE
31:59

I got a question for that. And this is a bit of a pivot, but, Goldie, I’ve said I’ve followed you for about 10 years now, and I’ve seen you operate as a business, not just a creator, for, like, a decade now. So what’s your advice on managing that. That business as a creator and then staying consistent despite what life throws at you along the way?

GOLDIE CHAN
32:19

Yeah, so I’m sure. Or maybe I’m not sure, but I’m a cancer survivor, and part of that is, you know, taking time off from. From content creation for my business to. So from 2022 till, I would say, maybe, honestly, part of 2025, I was taking off quite a bit of time off of my content creation and also off of my business side of things. And that, once again, is just healthy boundaries. I need to work on, literally my health. And so I did. But when I’m managing my business, what I’m thinking about is, what are my big goals? Right? What are my big goals? And then I always think, what are my resources I can put behind my goals? I love the word resources, because so many people think only about the elements of resources.

GOLDIE CHAN
33:11

They’re like, I only have one person who works with me, or I only have X amount of dollars. Right? But all of that is resources. And sometimes we have more of one kind of resource than the other. Sometimes we have more money, which is always lovely. Sometimes we have more people working with us, which is also great, but also kind of can be a headache sometimes. Right? So it really depends on what your resources are for your business. And so I think about that a lot in terms of what are my big goals for. Usually for getting to the end of the year, because as we all know, who knows what’s gonna happen in the new year? But I always think, like, what are my goals at the end of the year? What do I want to try to get to? Is it I want to get to, like, X number of clients or do I want to get to.

GOLDIE CHAN
33:59

I want to do X amount of money in terms of deals closed, or I want to speak at X number of places? And then I’m like, what resources do I need to make that happen? Right? And those resources might be hiring a service, Those resources might be hiring a new person. Those resources might be Using AI in a really intelligent way. I always apply people to AI, if that makes sense. So I’ll. I’ll explain that a little bit, which is, even if I do use AI, which I’ll use AI for research and to find contacts and to do all that, I still apply human being. On top of that, I will still hire either a consultant or somebody from my team who will then take that data and filter it through a human lens and filter it through a human brain. So I am not somebody that’s using necessarily open claw to automate all of my things for eternity. I still believe that there’s an element of human checkpoints that also need to happen, because I’ve also heard too many horror stories of people who fully automate and then they lose so much money in business, or they lose contacts, or they lose trust, which trust you cannot even buy.

GOLDIE CHAN
35:19

So I always think, like, what are my resources? What resources can I apply to the problem at hand? And how can I get there? And not necessarily get there faster, but get there in a way that still maintains a level of the integrity that I’m personally known for, as well as getting there, not in the next four, five years. Right. So sometimes shorter than that.

A. LEE JUDGE
35:45

You mentioned a lot of things there that got me thinking about as a speaker and as time evolves, we have to, or we’re drawn to pivot to other topics or to other things. Like now we’re all being pulled towards AI, like it or not. How is it that after all this time, you’ve been able to focus on personal brand? And maybe I missed a pivot somewhere, but how did you stay in that lane if you did? And then how do you keep from being pulled outside of that lane when maybe you don’t want to?

GOLDIE CHAN
36:16

Yeah. So I think it’s funny, every time I feel like I try to exit out of that lane, I get pulled back in. So for me, it’s almost like a whirlpool. So it’s funny because other people are like, I’m pivoting constantly. And I’m like, I feel like I pivot out and then I pivot right back in. Like, it’s like that. I end up in personal branding. So a great example.

GOLDIE CHAN
36:37

So in 2018, I want to say Forbes approached me and said, do you want to write a column? And I said, yes, I would love. And I’ll tell you this, I was like, I’d love to write a column. I’d love to write a column on bipoc C level women executives. Right. And how they are doing amazing work in the workplace. And they were like, great, we’d love you to write a column on purpose. Personal Branding and Storytelling in the Digital Age. And I’m like, great, because you’re Forbes, I’m going to write whatever column you want me to.

GOLDIE CHAN
37:07

And they’re like, if you really want to. They were like, if you really don’t want to write that column, we can move you around and try to find a place for the other column that you want to write. And I was like, you don’t tell Forbes that. So I wrote Personal Branding and Storytelling for the Digital Age because they were like, this is exactly your. You’re Elaine Goldie. We’d love you to be in it. And I was like, darn. Okay.

GOLDIE CHAN
37:29

Okay, fine. I’ve been in personal writing for so long, I’m going to start writing this. And then when I wrote my book, all the publishers I spoke to and my agent also, everybody wanted me to do a personal branding book. So then it just became a matter of like, what flavor of personal branding book am I doing? And so all of these big kind of checkpoints in my life. Writing for Forbes, writing a book. A lot of the public speaking that I do, a lot of people want to just learn more about personal branding from me. And I feel very blessed and fortunate that people continually want to learn, like the same niche subject from me. So even though I’ve talked about different subjects, I have, as I’m sure you do too, a whole cadre of talks that are different.

GOLDIE CHAN
38:17

Right. But consistently, people love hearing from me personal brand and they love hearing my personal brand story. And I think it’s because it is very meta, because I built my personal brand while literally teaching other people how to build their personal brand. And prior to this universe of me creating on LinkedIn, I was also already helping C level executives build their personal brand internally and helping folks be build their personal brand. So I’ve had a really consistent, thorough line through my entire career of personal branding in a very specific way. So I am actually almost not. I don’t want to say pivot proof, but I feel like I’ll pivot and I pivot back into personal branding because I have such a strong personal story and a personal tie to the subject matter. But once again, who knows? Maybe I will move on to something else soon.

A. LEE JUDGE
39:18

Well, there’s nothing better than teaching what you’ve done. Yeah, I saw Alex Hormozi once said, like, I’m not going to come on stage and teach you five ways to do this. I’M just going to tell you what I did.

GOLDIE CHAN
39:30

Yes.

A. LEE JUDGE
39:31

Take it or leave it. And you go, well, it worked. So let me follow what they did. And so.

GOLDIE CHAN
39:36

And now. So amazing. Such an amazing creator.

A. LEE JUDGE
39:42

Yeah. And I can see why you get pulled back into personal branding because you, you walk the walk, you’ve done it. And so even if you only said, hey, this is what I did, and I would go, well, it worked. So it can’t be something to it, evidently. So it’s worth paying you for to say, well, let me, let me see what you did. Because it worked.

ROCIO OSUNA
40:01

And I think you’ve done such a good job about, you know, branding yourself. And the signature, the green hair, I think for years, the fact that you kept that from when I first saw your content 2018 to what it is now, I’m pretty sure you get asked, people talk about you. They might not remember your name, which I think your name is wonderful. They always think, I’m sure. What’s that LinkedIn person with the green hair?

GOLDIE CHAN
40:24

Yeah. People will come up to me at conferences because they see the back of my head and they’ll be like, Goldie, right? Goldie Chan. And I’m so thankful that I have such strong branding that people can recognize me. I remember, you know, and I use different hair color mixes. I go to an amazing salon here in Los Angeles. But at one point we were using this Day Glo yellow in my hair. That literally is like a black light yellow, which I didn’t realize. So I was at a conference at one of the major Adobe conferences, and I’m sitting near the front and I didn’t realize my hair was black light reactive and they were having some sort of black light situation in the room.

GOLDIE CHAN
41:05

So. So apparently from the back, my friend said, you just see this glowing yellow green dot that’s kind of like floating around. And that was me sitting near the front and it was like the back of my head just kind of like doing this because I was like, wee, you know, like I was bopping my head around and they were just like, I knew exactly, Goldie, where you were sitting because you were this.in the darkness. And I’m like, that’s so fun. But yes, I am glad that my branding is so consistent. And what I tell people too is you don’t need to have, of course, green hair to have a consistent brand. Right. You don’t need to have glasses in a certain color, which, you know, there’s people who do that to have a consistent brand.

GOLDIE CHAN
41:46

What you need to have a consistent brand is a consistent brand is to have a story that has connecting dots throughout. Right. I always think about classic Pixar storytelling. There is a simple and clear story. People love a simple and clear story. This is why so many sequels for shows and movies, et cetera, are less popular than the original version, because the original version usually had an incredibly simple and clear story. So if you yourself have a simple and clear story, that people understand that people get it. And I think people like being able to understand a story really fast.

GOLDIE CHAN
42:31

And also we live in a world where everything moves so quickly. We’re inundated with so much information. If you can distill your story very simply and very clearly for people, people appreciate that. I mean, this is why I think it’s so funny. But my nickname in the press is the Oprah of LinkedIn. I got that from Huffington Post in 2018, so many years ago. And people still that to reference me because it’s an easy and understandable tagline.

A. LEE JUDGE
43:00

Well, I know we got a wrap here. So show us your book again. Tell us where to find it. Tell us where to find you.

GOLDIE CHAN
43:06

So this is my book, Personal Branding for Introverts. Feel free. You can find it actually at pretty much every place that sells books. Barnes and Noble, Amazon, all bookshop your local small bookstore or ask them to order it in and support a local bookstore store. People can always find me at either goldiechan.com or on LinkedIn@LinkedIn.com goldie and you can also just Google me because I’m the first three to four pages in Google search and probably also ChatGPT. So feel free to look for me there.

ROCIO OSUNA
43:41

Thank you so much, Goldie.

GOLDIE CHAN
43:42

Thank you.

ROCIO OSUNA
43:43

Love, love meeting you and hopefully I can get to meet you at Vidcon and watch your session there.

GOLDIE CHAN
43:47

Yes, let’s do it.

A. LEE JUDGE
43:49

Thank you. Great meeting you. Great having you on. Thanks.

ROCIO OSUNA
43:51

Thank you for joining us on the show. Hope to catch you next time.

A. LEE JUDGE
43:54

All right, business and marketing, see you next time.

GOLDIE CHAN
43:57

And understandable tackling.

A. LEE JUDGE
43:59

Well, I know we got a wrap here. So show us your book again. Tell us where to find it. Tell us where to find you.

GOLDIE CHAN
44:05

So this is my book, Personal Branding for Introverts. Feel free. You can find it actually at pretty much every place that sells books but Barnes and Noble, Amazon. I’ll bookshop your local small bookstore or ask them to order it in and support a local bookstore. People can always find me at either goldiechan.com or on LinkedIn@LinkedIn.com goldie and you can also just Google me because I’m the first three to four pages in Google search and probably also ChatGPT. So feel free to look for me there.

ROCIO OSUNA
44:39

Thank you so much, Goldie.

GOLDIE CHAN
44:41

Thank you.

ROCIO OSUNA
44:41

Love, love meeting you. And hopefully I can get to meet you at VidCon and watch your session there.

GOLDIE CHAN
44:46

Yes. Let’s do it.

A. LEE JUDGE
44:47

Thank you. Great meeting you. Great having you on. Thanks.

ROCIO OSUNA
44:50

Thank you for joining us on the show. Hope to catch you next time.

A. LEE JUDGE
44:53

All right. Business of Marketing. See you next time.

GOLDIE CHAN
44:59

Thank you for listening to the Business of Marketing Podcast, a show brought to you by ContentMonsta.com, the producer of B2B digital marketing. Content show notes can be found on ContentMonsta.com as well as ALeeJudge.com